Comments on Nats Insider: Sticking to their plan

6 years of frustration, are you kidding me? let...

2012-01-26T07:34:13.454-05:00

6 years of frustration, are you kidding me? let's see,it started in 1969 with the Senators, then 30 years of nothing, now this. Please. I want to say that there is always hope, but I have less hope than I had in 2005, more hope than I had in 1980.

This team is still short at least one starting OF,...

2012-01-25T18:21:52.742-05:00

This team is still short at least one starting OF, two if Morse has to play 1B because ALR isn't ready to go in April. How many teams play .500+ ball with 1 MLB OF?

Comparing us to the Yankees is ludicrous. They spe...

2012-01-25T17:28:34.695-05:00

Comparing us to the Yankees is ludicrous. They spend 200 million a year and still turn a profit. At this point we simply cannot compete with their history, their fanbase, their TV contract, their marketing revenue, or their paid attendance. Even if we were perennial contenders, we simply cannot be the Yankees or Red Sox. Hopefully the new CBA will level that somewhat (and the evidence of this offseason is that those teams are reining in the spending). Three years from now, if we are letting our star players walk and don't have a payroll north of 9 figures, then we can all agree that the team is cheap. Throwing away money for the sake of being a high spending team is not the answer.

Put me down as someone who is THRILLED that we didn't chase the PF Flyer over 150 million.

2015 is our year!! I can feel it.

2012-01-25T16:08:56.653-05:00

2015 is our year!! I can feel it.

NatsJack in Florida said... Wally.... they'...

2012-01-25T16:06:03.289-05:00
NatsJack in Florida said... Wally.... they've never had a roster worthy of the league average in salaries. They're getting there.

NJ - I hear you (although I think that there may be a chicken-or-egg question there). I also think that they'll pay Zim and some of the other homegrown guys who become stars to keep them. So I don't see us as Pitt or KC.

But I wasn't trying to rehash the past as much as express surprise that they (the Lerners) have as many supporters as they do, since objectively they have neither spent a lot of money nor had on-the-field success. Usually that combination gets hammered by fans. I think that the reason they don't get more heat is essentially your point - things are getting better, so let's just enjoy.

I am on board, and looking forward to an enjoyable season. I'll probably never think of the Lerners as great owners, but I like Rizzo and what he has been able to do, so I feel pretty good about things right now.

Well, y'all can keep whining...You won't k...

2012-01-25T16:05:33.100-05:00
Well, y'all can keep whining...You won't kill my buzz. This clubs heading in the right direction. Right now, at this minnit, we're not quite a legitimate contender, but a wildcats slot is not an outrageous pipedream- and NatsJack's "unexpected move" hasn't happened yet (unless NatGio qualifys?). And starting next year, we ought to be on equal footing with anybody, for a long time. I can see Rizzo as Executive of the Year, and being featured in magazine stories titled "How To Do It". I feel you 'Spo's fans, for your long suffering, but I've been around here for most of my life, and I haven't had a team, AT ALL, since I was 11.... couldn't do the O's...just couldn't do it...

I know you don't want my pity, buy you got it. In five years, I'll be looking back on thus year, and last, as having turned the corner, enjoying every minnit of it. I can only suspect some of you will be moaning about how Rizzo doesn't listen to your advice. Lighten up, and enjoy the ride.... IT'S BASEBALL!!!!

Exposremains... I can relate - I was born and rais...

2012-01-25T15:24:06.233-05:00
Exposremains...
I can relate - I was born and raised in Montreal and grew up going to 70 games a year at Jarry Park/the Big Owe (father's season's tickets), . Saw them give away Randy Johnson for a 2 month rental (Mark Langston), Pedro Martinez for pittance, and, maybe the worst of all, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee for 2 months of Bartolo Colon (wow). Been living in the DC area since 2003.

While Im pretty sure that the Nats would have gone for 5 plus 2 option years, they werent going to 8-9 years, and rightly so. Rizzo's plan is to have real athletes at every position who can play some D, and Fielder doesnt fit the mold. His 1B defence is adequate at best and over time wont get better, and with no DH, there's nowhere to hide him in an NL lineup. An AL team made much more sense for him, but Ill tell you this - Its crazy to pay a DH $25M/year.

For those who are curious, here's the most rec...

2012-01-25T15:23:12.760-05:00
For those who are curious, here's the most recent and complete data on ticket prices and other fan expenses I could find:

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf

The Nats' "Fan Cost Index" comes in right at the league average ... which is exactly where they finished in the standings.

The Fan Cost Index also isn't quite fair to the Nats because it includes the cost of parking, something that Nats fans can easily avoid because of the park's metro accessibility. It also doesn't account for season ticket prices vs. list prices and things like the Red Carpet Rewards program, although I don't know whether many other clubs have similar programs.

Wally.... they've never had a roster worthy of...

2012-01-25T15:21:17.477-05:00
Wally.... they've never had a roster worthy of the league average in salaries. They're getting there.

Do I read dueling Anons? Oh my!

2012-01-25T15:18:01.937-05:00
Do I read dueling Anons? Oh my!

Steve M. said.....That to me is very impressive...

2012-01-25T15:16:54.622-05:00
Steve M. said.....That to me is very impressive.

I agree, we have come a long way, and I am excited for baseball to start. And I have no complaint over the Nats balking at Fielder's contract. That being said, I am always surprised by the amount of people that defend the Lerners' record in baseball related spending (just commenting on a number of posts, not yours). In 7 years in DC, they have never once paid a league average payroll, AND they have never once had a winning season. People can add a lot of other things, but it doesn't change those two points, and I am surprised they don't hold more sway.

Certainly, spending doesn't guarantee success, but it gets spun by the apologists like it is actually a hindrance, and we are better off spending less. That is probably the part that I find the most remarkable about this debate. Why can't they spend more money in smart ways, and increase the organization's talent?

I am excited about the direction of the team, and very thankful that the days of 2006-2010 are behind us, but I think it is coming despite the Lerners, not because of them. I'd trade the whole family for Mike Ilitch, if I could.

I was off by a year (6 vs. 7) - it's not relev...

2012-01-25T15:13:51.582-05:00
I was off by a year (6 vs. 7) - it's not relevant. How much higher are the Dodgers and Angels prices? Since you want us to spend like the Yanks, how do we compare to their prices?

So... 10 game improvement per year should have been 15? 20? How many times in the history of baseball has that happened? No, wait, that's not relevant because past performance doesn't equal future success (unless we happened to be successful the year before?).

And it's not hard to improve by 10 games per year? Ask that to any cellar dwellar (find any O's fan around here) and see what they say.

The Nats are reluctant to spend to the average,...

2012-01-25T15:10:12.422-05:00
The Nats are reluctant to spend to the average, yet they see no problem charging top 10 prices. They are obsessed with keeping spending under control.

Then why are they doing stuff like spending >$100M for Jayson Werth, and giving Gio Gonzales a contract for $40M and Michael Morse a contract for >$10M covering years that they already had under team control? Shouldn't they have kept that spending under control if they were as obsessed as you say they are?

Prince Fielder can mash, but by 36 he'll be ma...

2012-01-25T15:07:28.325-05:00
Prince Fielder can mash, but by 36 he'll be mashed potatoes. The man is only 5'11. In nine years he'll make Terry Forster look svelte.

Forget winning now. Let's win in 2013.

2012-01-25T15:06:16.046-05:00
Forget winning now. Let's win in 2013.

Feel Wood, I get that impression from pretty much ...

2012-01-25T15:04:15.356-05:00
Feel Wood, I get that impression from pretty much every writer who are not quoting any Nats personnel but their impression is built on what Nats do and say.

Similar to how some of us view Teddy winning race as end of an era, I view this impression of 'we are not ready yet' as a nuisance.

No, the Nats are heading into year 8 in DC - -not ...

2012-01-25T15:02:17.163-05:00
No, the Nats are heading into year 8 in DC - -not sure hwich forgotten lost 2 years there are for you. The Nats ticket prices are high -- the Dodgers and Angels charge less, for example, it is objectively true. The payroll has been bottom 10 (mostly bottom 5) since the Lerners took over -- again, not opinion but fact. The improvement by 10 games is nice and all but when you start at 59 wins, it's not so hard to improve as very few clubs are capable of losing that badly. And there is no value going forward to having made incremental improvement in the past. Conjuring ways for the Nats brass to seem successful, when they have not been, and extrapolating out future performance based upon wins and losses of prior versions of the club against prior versions of other clubs, as nonsensical as that exercise is, is one way to feel good about the Nats. I'd like the Lerners and Rizzo to provide something more meaty: a winner NOW.

Thanks Michele and Steve! I don't understand ...

2012-01-25T14:53:34.820-05:00
Thanks Michele and Steve!

I don't understand the part about building for the long haul but do you know how many promises you hear in 25 years...

The Yanks bust the bank to win better than anyone ...

2012-01-25T14:50:07.539-05:00
The Yanks bust the bank to win better than anyone and they seem to have lasted pretty well using that strategy, no?

And that is the whole point, it is about SPENDING -- bank busting. Clubs need to do it to some level to realistically compete. The Nats are reluctant to spend to the average, yet they see no problem charging top 10 prices. They are obsessed with keeping spending under control. And Zuckerman patting them on the back for having a design on competing in some future year when they are this close just encourages them to be conservative with the STH's money.

Enough Anon (and that is the way it's spelled)...

2012-01-25T14:45:49.070-05:00
Enough Anon (and that is the way it's spelled).
- Despite your emotional linkage, this franchise has nothing to do with any previous Washington (or Montreal for that matter) team. This franchise is effectively 6 years old: 2 years of MLB control, 2 years of Bowden/Lerners figuring it out, 2 years of 10 games per year improvement. Go suffer somewhere else because I'm not suffering in the slightest.
- I've owned a ticket to every game played here. My ticket prices have gone up twice very minimally in six years and for where my seats are they are way below the price paid in premium markets (that we all think we should be).

Geez, this mood in here is not good enough. We have improved 10 games per year for 2 years and are MUCH BETTER on paper right now than we were last year.

I've had a standing bet with everyone in my ticket group that we will reach the playoffs this year and I'm sticking by it. And I would much rather have slow, steady growth that leads to a sustained multi-season post-season run (like the Phillies) than any flash in the pan once every five years play that they had in Marlins-land.

Ok, Feel Wood, the depths of not contending after ...

2012-01-25T14:44:41.473-05:00
Ok, Feel Wood, the depths of not contending after winning the World Series are worse than the depths of not contending at all?? Wow, the lengths some posters will go to legitimize the lousy management of this club is something to behold.

I hope this trend of publicly talking about &qu...

2012-01-25T14:43:25.101-05:00
I hope this trend of publicly talking about "preparing for 2013" changes before 2012 season begins. Real fans or not, it is annoying to hear that from anyone remotely related to Nationals.

The only place you hear that kind of statement from is the likes of Zuckerman and Kilgore. They don't speak for the team.

N Cognito -- ever hear of the D-Bax or Marlins?...

2012-01-25T14:40:06.223-05:00
N Cognito -- ever hear of the D-Bax or Marlins? Those clubs seem to prove your minimum 5 years to even thinking about playoffs theory wrong. They went out and got players and they won Championships, go figure.

Yeah, sure you can go out and bust the bank to put together a team that wins a championship NOW. But those teams never last, and the depths to which those teams descend after that one good year is always painful to see. It happened with the DBacks, and it happened with the Marlins twice (and may yet happen again). Give me a slow build to a long run of every-year contention any day.

N Cognito: Well put. I guess I thought about Mor...

2012-01-25T14:36:57.978-05:00
N Cognito:

Well put. I guess I thought about Morse and I went into a dream. Thankfully it's getting better, with a little help from my friends at Nats Insider.

2010 lineup was not as bad as everyone thinks. We ...

2012-01-25T14:27:46.214-05:00
2010 lineup was not as bad as everyone thinks. We had Dunn, Hammer, and Morgan (who was supposed to be good). We should have done better, if not for Hammer's injuries and Morgan's antics.

Anyways, we are much better off now, heading into 2012. However, I hope Nationals intend to win this season, not just look forward to 2013. Realistically speaking, we are not a sure shot for playoffs this season but I hope this trend of publicly talking about "preparing for 2013" changes before 2012 season begins. Real fans or not, it is annoying to hear that from anyone remotely related to Nationals.